Which pattern in the glass is that? You've yet to go on about it when we've had beers together 🙂🍻

Good to see you're drinking a porter to go along with your reading.

As far as I've been able to make out, the beer that was served on the Wiesn prior to 1872 was a Braunbier/Sommerbier—so, technically a Märzen, tho' I think the name had fallen out of fashion. It wasn't till Selmayr released his homage to Dreher and called it a Märzen that the name caught on (again).

I never said it was a colour thing. I'm well aware of both examples you mention. Flötzinger's Märzen also tends toward gold. Etc etc. Then there's Austrian Märzen, which is below the gravity category of German ones. So I guess we should also be clear about that. Märzen is, after all, a shape-shifter

Well, then there's Austrian Märzen (well under 13º P), which muddies the waters even more. At any rate, I find it amusing how we all tie ourselves into knots (myself included) at this time of year trying to split hairs over beer styles have been in flux since the get-go. 🍻🙂

Sure. Sommersudverbot and all. As you point out, the meaning of Märzen has changed (and keeps changing) since then. I'd call Märzen a Festbier if it's brewed for a festival, but I wouldn't call the golden Festbier on the Oktoberfest Wiesn a Märzen, tho' I suppose you could make an argument for that.

By that logic you could call any Lagerbier a Märzen ...

Yup, they're definitely different beers! (But they're still "Festbiers," even if one is a Märzen and the other can be labeled "Oktoberfestbier" on account of H-Pschorr being locaded in Munich.) Here they are side by side last year at Poschners.

Hacker-Pschorr releases both a golden-hued Oktoberfestbier and a Märzen. The only place on the Wiesen to get the Märzen is at Poschner's, a tiny tent where you can also get their Festbier. 🍻

Technically, ANY beer brewed for ANY festival is a Festbier. And Festbiers run the gamut from gold to chestnut brown. At Oktoberfest, though? That's slightly different. So you're partially right: amber-hued Märzen was eclipsed entirely by golden-hued Festbier in the early 90s.

Hasn't been Märzen since the early 90s, when the changeover to golden-hued Festbier was more or less complete. Only one tent — and a small one at that, Poschners — sells Märzen from Hacker-Pschorr. A recent but welcome development. I love the amber Märzens! 🙂🍻

Great catching up with you, too, Jack! I just realized this morning that it was exactly one year to the date since we hung out in Brno. Looking forward to seeing you soon on your home turf!

Dvakrát pour ... so that's what the 3-stage pour is called in the Czech language? They're absolutely not going for a hladinka pour at the Schweizerhaus. There's also not a Lukr in sight.

Schweizerhaus, Vienna. The way a beer *should* look 🙂🍻

This tracks.